tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6587700778834733354.post5856818039487453512..comments2023-11-27T11:16:11.797-05:00Comments on Skeptic but Jewish: Did Moshe Write the Torah? Part 3Baruch Spinozahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11879864721961862810noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6587700778834733354.post-20831699726952667732010-12-17T14:13:48.236-05:002010-12-17T14:13:48.236-05:00I know that is what religious Jews belief and that...I know that is what religious Jews belief and that is why they are stupid for believing in that. If Moshe knew all the Torah then he would have not sinned at the rock because he knew what the Torah would say. In a similar manner Yakov would not think that Yosef was dead because he knew the Torah already. <br /><br />I know that Jewish people believe that Moshe had all Torah knowledge as did Yakov. I heard this before many times. But it makes them stupid. Because it leads to conclusions which do not make any sense. <br /><br />Be serious with me. If you picked up a book and it claimed it was an autobiography of somebody's life, but it mentioned how he died and was buried then your reason will automatically reject this book as an autobiography because you know dead people do not write books. But when it comes to the Torah this basic concept is rejected in matter of faith. <br /><br />You can keep your faith to yourself if it means I have to dumb myself down.Baruch Spinozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11879864721961862810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6587700778834733354.post-68125202235443922010-12-17T11:07:16.569-05:002010-12-17T11:07:16.569-05:00Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were trying to ma...Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were trying to make an argument. /s<br /><br />It isn't unlikely that Moshe wrote it if you believe that Moshe had divine guidance when writing the bible. So your argument is bunk to a religious Jew.<br /><br />http://www.mesora.org/13principles.html<br /><br />> "Principle VIII. That the Torah is from heaven [God]<br /><br />And this is that you believe that all of this Torah that was given by Moses our teacher, peace be upon him, that it is all from the mouth of God. Meaning that it was received by him entirely from God. And it is not known how Moses received it except by Moses himself, peace be upon him, that it came to him. That he was like a stenographer that you read to him and he writes all that is told to him: all the events and dates, the stories, and all the commandments...."<br /><br />This is what Jews are meant to believe. So your argument that Moshe did not write the Torah based upon the fact that he could not possibly have known that information is refuted. The information was given to him by God, according to Jewish belief.Aryehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09148855674663183057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6587700778834733354.post-43626621180146418342010-12-17T09:26:32.379-05:002010-12-17T09:26:32.379-05:00"Show me where in Judaism that Moshe wrote it..."Show me where in Judaism that Moshe wrote it without divine guidance.": <br /><br />I am not the one who has to show anything. I am not the one making extraordinary claims. You are. I am showing how it is unlikely that Moshe was the author of the Torah.Baruch Spinozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11879864721961862810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6587700778834733354.post-15466251041470252112010-12-17T01:56:15.818-05:002010-12-17T01:56:15.818-05:00Show me where in Judaism that Moshe wrote it witho...Show me where in Judaism that Moshe wrote it without divine guidance.Aryehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09148855674663183057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6587700778834733354.post-35575293160814451242010-12-17T00:52:56.544-05:002010-12-17T00:52:56.544-05:00"Exactly. So did you disprove your opening qu..."Exactly. So did you disprove your opening question, or did you disprove it? I think you proved how it must not be Moshe, which is exactly in line with Jewish belief and one of the 13 principles of faith, that God wrote/dictated it. So why not conclude that God could have written/dictated it? Why do you jump to the conclusion that it must have been written later? Oh right, because you already rejected God. But then this is a bad proof for someone who already believes in God.":<br /><br />Judaism says that Moshe wrote the Torah. I show that this does not make sense from the text alone. Therefore, the Torah cannot be written at the time of Moshe. I raise questions to why you cannot believe in the Mosaic authorship of the Torah. That is why I reject it.Baruch Spinozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11879864721961862810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6587700778834733354.post-69294302781696780282010-12-16T23:38:59.982-05:002010-12-16T23:38:59.982-05:00Exactly. So did you disprove your opening question...Exactly. So did you disprove your opening question, or did you disprove it? I think you proved how it must not be Moshe, which is exactly in line with Jewish belief and one of the 13 principles of faith, that God wrote/dictated it. So why not conclude that God could have written/dictated it? Why do you jump to the conclusion that it must have been written later? Oh right, because you already rejected God. But then this is a bad proof for someone who already believes in God.Aryehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09148855674663183057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6587700778834733354.post-48583967067372189712010-12-16T22:53:17.714-05:002010-12-16T22:53:17.714-05:00"I don't understand. Your "proofs&qu..."I don't understand. Your "proofs" are bits of Torah that demonstrate that Moshe could not have possibly known that information.": <br /><br />I demonstrate that the idea that Moshe wrote the entire draw does not make sense by reading the text itself. There are clues within the text that suggest that he cannot possibly be the author.Baruch Spinozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11879864721961862810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6587700778834733354.post-23278626682177141312010-12-16T21:58:31.873-05:002010-12-16T21:58:31.873-05:00> Whatever the real origins of Torah really are...> Whatever the real origins of Torah really are is not as important as that it was not written by Moshe (who recieved it from God).<br /><br />I don't understand. Your "proofs" are bits of Torah that demonstrate that Moshe could not have possibly known that information. But if he received it from God (as you yourself say), then why does that matter? God wrote/dictated it!Aryehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09148855674663183057noreply@blogger.com